Microsoft declares truce in open source war

I’m a relative old-timer. I remember the MS-DOS Encyclopedia. I used it to help with Assembly Language TSR’s and Device Drivers. I would very much like to see a Vista Encyclopedia. Then I would believe Microsoft was again becoming human.

Just checking back in … Thanks mods, for leaving my message intact.

Props.

Steve Smith:

You stated that “you open source hillbillies never want to pay anyone or recognize proprietary, intellectual property.” Hands down, this comment earned you the “2008 Boob of the Year Award”…but I suspect you’re jabbing from the point of view of an MS stockholder, so you’re forgiven.

Calling us “open source hillbillies” implies that we’re merely a fringe group; this is completely false. With the pervasiveness of Open Source, and the scores of them thar hillbillies joining the ranks of OS users/devs daily, the day of the closed system is numbered. Here’s a hot stock tip for ya…get outta MS before it plummets.

I don’t use Open Source to avoid costs, nor out of the thousands of OS developers I’ve known and/or worked with have even discussed such issue. See, that’s the beauty of OS, it’s not all about money…and that allows us to focus on what’s most important: quality, security, extensibility. I use and develop open source apps because it allows me to give back without being hogtied into paying licensing fees for my material to “work” in a closed system that has only jumped on the bandwagon out of desperation, trickery, or both.

To some, Microsoft’s announcement is like the holy grail; all their prayers are answered. To others, like myself, this is none more than an attempt of Microsoft to regain some leverage in that if we refuse to pay presumably ever-increasing licensing fees, then our work is of no use to the system. I for one, an willing to take no more chances on Microsoft; track record speaks for itself. I’m perfectly happy to keep rolling out thousands of lines of open code, so long as the “supporting” (ahem) system is willing to make that same sacrifice, which includes foregoing the desire to make a buck at every turn. Unfortunately, since that’s not inline with MS’s model, I merely raise an eyebrow at those who are “sold” by this tactic and then turn back to my OS communities where my input, feedback, work, time, ideas, patches, features, updates, upgrades, etc, etc, etc, are appreciated.

Hillary:

Your comment regarding “Software that works” earned you a nomination for the 2009 BOTY… It’s obvious that you took Microsoft’s class on “Using a Competing Search Engine for MS-geared Results”. Your comment gave me the laugh of a lifetime, so thanks for that, but honestly, your willingness to spout off about things you haven’t a clue on how to research, made you look like a hillbilly, as well as lending evidence to “The Bat”’s comment about MS’s grand achievement. Are you a Scientologist, too, by chance?

“beaurocrats”???? Haha. Man, you seriously need a spelling checker.

and if the moderators, who are sure to be apple fans, don’t post Maddox’s blog, here is his website so all you guys can see how stupid being a fanboy is:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

Guys and Gals,

This MS move is their ___best___ action/plan/idea for how to kill ‘open source’.

Here is why?
Microsoft agrees to not sue them for writing software that is interoperable. But anyone who wishes to sell that software commercially needs to pay patent royalties.

TRANSLATION:
Real ‘open source’ groups/developers (Debian comes to my mind) will benefit from this move.

Others commercial distribution (RedHat, Novell, Mandrake) will __NOT__ be able to incorporate new MS API/protocols into their offering without paying royalties to MS,

End Result:
Linux will split into two entities. None of them will be strong enough to compete with MS. The main MS objective will be achieved.

Texrat, typically, misses the point by a Texas mile.

Sure it was Xerox that invented the “windowing concept” and the mouse, but it was Apple that imaginatively developed it into an intuitive, user friendly and elegant interface and made it AVAILABLE to real live people in a desktop computer they could buy, take home, set up, and use. At Xerox, it was mostly just sitting around in the lab for a group of engineers to play with. And, for that matter, back at the time, this was a group of engineers largely viewed with disdain by the rest of the Xerox organization.

I’d also add that without the “intuitive, user friendly and elegant” part, you get Microsoft/Windows. And, frankly, as has been observed by others, Microsoft’s biggest accomplishment has been providing the means for village idiots to go global at the click of a mouse.

Something about Windows fan boys…

Golodh, I’m sure it would make you feel good to think regulation had anything to do with Microsoft’s move, but anything the EU could have done is pennies compared to the stakes in the competition with Google and Apple.

The market drove this one, just ask anyone with significant amounts of their own money invested in any of the players involved.

Microsoft will have to learn to play nice, because that’s what the consumer will demand. So long as other options exist, government beaurocrats are only around to make themselves feel good.

I know of not one beaurocrat who has written a line of useful code.

Google open source driver problem = 34 million hits

Google windows driver problem = 2.8 million hits.
..and if we put quotes around the search:
“open source driver problem”: 10 hits
“windows driver problem”: 7,610 hits

Arguing by google search is silly, anyway..

“if you recall, the idea of a “windows” Operating System was, under a different name, first available on the Apple platform. It was Microsoft that “Stole it” to begin with”

Looks like Tony in Peoria missed the outcome of an old frivoulous lawsuit (that Apple lost)– not to mention a significant bit of history. Come on, Tony… did you sleep through the session of OS 101 where it was explained that the windowing concept was developed at Xerox PARC when Apple was just a wet dream? The one that Xerox allowed to slip into public domain? Oh, and the mouse too.

You Apple fan boys are so silly!

Read the press release. You will find that open source developers are allowed to read the documentation. Microsoft agrees to not sue them for writing software that is interoperable. But anyone who wishes to sell that software commercially needs to pay patent royalties.

Those terms directly conflict with the GPL. Do not expect to see any GPLed projects (eg Samba) taking advantage of this offer.

Those terms do not conflict with the BSD license, but they conflict with the goals of virtually all projects that use the BSD license. Do not expect to see any major BSD projects accepting any code that was generated thanks to this offer.

Who does that leave in the open source world who would want to take advantage of this offer? Not exactly a lot of people!

Back to the open source flame war, you should try putting quotes around some of your Google queries.. then at least you would be half-way scientific. Try googling “windows crashes” for example. BSOD on Windows = lock up, BSOD on Linux = a cool screensaver.

As a software engineer, the value of open source means being able to do what you want. With MS, Oracle, etc., if you have a bug or lack a feature you are generally out of luck. As a user, firefox is way cooler than Internet Explorer and in my mind was instrumental in push MS to release IE7, which admittedly competes with FF.

If I write code that is unique I believe I am the owner and can copyright it or open source it. That is MS right as well. I really not care what the EU says, but I care to provide my customers with the tools they request from me. If I need to provide my customers with a spreadsheet/text document filled in with data from my software, I need the format of MS if they want me to support their “Office”. My software runs on win98 -> vista but my data are exported in Open Office formats.

So if MS wants me to export to MS Apps it must be easy for me do AND the price tag of their “Office” must be “fit” the need of my customers.

I believe what we are seeing here is simply the impact of EU anti-trust regulators.

They (as opposed to US regulators) actually had the courage to impose meaningful fines for anti-trust violations on Microsoft, and then launch several new investigations.

All investigations revolve around the fact that Microsoft has been using its closed formats as an (illegal) means of competition.

Having seen that not even its fabled legal twisting or its intense PR campaign could get them off the hook with the EU, it seems that Microsoft have got the message.

I believe that Microsoft are actually trying to remove or at lest minimize their illegal practices rather than risk having another humiliating defeat handed to them.

I’m not sure why such a celebration. I’m not even sure what Open Source has to do with all of this. If nothing else, it is a next move to grab even more market, the take over the last spots of resistance. Microsoft is making THEIR OWN standards more available to developers so that more third party tools would be created, thus only straightening the position of MS. Think of it, MS’s hold on the end-user PCs, especially in business world, is mostly because third party programs, from bookkeeping to financial analysis, to HR software, etc. was written for MS and the end user simply cannot break away from Windows and Office. Now even more tools will be coming around Windows, Office, and Exchange, only solidifying their hold on the market.

Nowhere in the release it says that MS will be adapting Open Source’s protocols and interfaces and rely less on its own proprietary once. And even the wildest dreamer is not foreseeing an Open Source-like publishing of source code and allowing free redistribution rights.

This move is the sign that MS has reached such a critical mass of the market share, that now it can simply open up to take in the rest without a fight. To me, this looks more like an end of Open Source.

One word…. VISTA

Software that works?

Google open source driver problem = 34 million hits

Google windows driver problem = 2.8 million hits.

It’s not very scientific, I admit - but then, neither are hillbillies, it would seem. I’d hang around waiting for your reply, but I expect you’ve got some drivers to write first.

If by “open source hillbillies” you mean people who prefer software that works….. and as far as intellectual property goes, if you recall, the idea of a “windows” Operating System was, under a different name, first available on the Apple platform. It was Microsoft that “Stole it” to begin with….

Steve Smith:

I think your comment has be one of the most ignorant, base, simple and just generally stupid statements I have ever heard anyone ever speak. Maybe you should try reading about what the words open source mean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

Oh wait, Wikipedia (wikimedia) is open source, isn’t it. Therefore you better not gaze upon for it might actually impart a bit of intelligence to you. And this is all based upon the idea that you can actually read at a greater than first grade level, of course.

They can declare a truce all they want, but the skeptical tech watchers are correct to be skeptical. After all that Microsoft has done to any of their competitors - to which the GPL open source community is perhaps one of their greatest - to believe that they would raise a white flag under _any_ circumstances is naive at best.
They will go down fighting. They’ve demonstrated that it’s all the know.

Open Source? If they could just get a help file with complete and understandable information that might be small step for digital mankind!

“Open source hillbillies.” Now there’s a phrase I can get down with.

The timing is interesting given that regulators, namely the EU, is ultimately going to decide the Microsoft/Yahoo fate. Sort of like buying your girlfriend’s mother some flowers…

you open source hillbillies never want to pay anyone or recognize proprietary, intellectual property.

sounds like a good thing to me, even though it will be twisted every way it can by some people just like they claim MS does. I have worked around MS products for years now and they have used many standards and already have some interops in their products. It goes back to the old saying “the big dog always gets picked on”. I have worked with Windows systems that interop with main frames, unix, netware, and linux. I am not saying they can’t do more, but in all reality MS gets picked on for things like this while everyone else hangs out under the radar. Oh and yes most companies if not all are looking out for themselves, and sometimes desicions aren’t the right ones, but MS has in most cases relaized these things and have improved. Until someone else comes out with something better, I can’t see running an enterprise efficiently without, and MS made a computer available to the masses, so they have much to be thanked for by the Linux and Apple community, they alone could never have done that and they are still trying to this day.

MS moves from open hostility to the empty rhetoric of peaceful co-existence. THERE WILL BE NO PEACE! The days of the closed operating system are limited. We are not “annoyed” by this move, simply not fooled. Nothing has changed save the rate at which users are abandoning closed operating systems to join a community of computer user/developers

When you are one of the richest companies in the world being run by one the richest men in the world there is little doubt that this company is going to be open and sharing. I think strong competition has forced this Giant to rethink there positon. Isolation is counter productive.

I love it. Only Microsoft could put out a 1,300-word Interoperability Manifesto Press Release … and totally avoid using the word ‘Linux.’